New Member from England

[Nick-England]

Hi I'm a new member here from England

 

I have a deactivated Thompson m1a1 which is probably against everyone's will out there in America and is mine here too and atrocious but over here it's sought after for gun collectors as no lisence is required. I joined looking to learn a bit about this gun and hopefully restore it not deactivate it, it looks like it's taken one hell of a beating and been badly neglected and hopefully the pictures I've uploaded work to show anyway here's some pics and I've got a few questions hopefully you guys can help me with

 

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x274/slick-nick-autos/Thompson%20m1a1/41E0E5D3-0AB9-48BE-ADE9-A1A2D30F5D14_zpse6vfbsgy.jpg

 

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x274/slick-nick-autos/Thompson%20m1a1/595F1D22-B510-42F1-ADCF-AE0686C04911_zps4grj4tqi.jpg

 

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x274/slick-nick-autos/Thompson%20m1a1/2B090381-DA0F-4E1F-BA47-4FBC8E2D3499_zps1dylai5f.jpg

 

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x274/slick-nick-autos/Thompson%20m1a1/0B663D01-4E83-435C-9B69-3E96ECA78FEF_zps0i7hvpvk.jpg

 

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x274/slick-nick-autos/Thompson%20m1a1/5A37E7BC-EFFF-406B-BF3E-5128C19F0EC6_zpscawqcxbx.jpg

 

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x274/slick-nick-autos/Thompson%20m1a1/643880A2-74B5-4D60-8A64-BC6657D93A48_zps7euahybw.jpg

 

The trigger guard is badly bent I'm hoping to rectify this

 

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x274/slick-nick-autos/Thompson%20m1a1/74FAFBCF-B165-4D33-B186-DE177C489AD5_zpsyos2wign.jpg

 

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x274/slick-nick-autos/Thompson%20m1a1/055B729B-F42B-4962-8FB3-93507450BAE1_zpsl0l5zslo.jpg

 

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x274/slick-nick-autos/Thompson%20m1a1/4E37088A-18EB-4213-9821-F70193D7E03A_zpsxwlfthc3.jpg

 

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x274/slick-nick-autos/Thompson%20m1a1/6E698539-3C41-4A4F-8718-02DB6243187E_zpsgkev7jlf.jpg

 

Is there a Thompson registrar atall for serial no's?

 

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x274/slick-nick-autos/Thompson%20m1a1/88AD8D48-E3EF-47E7-9E3F-C5C8A7274A3A_zpsarv3znox.jpg

 

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x274/slick-nick-autos/Thompson%20m1a1/A54C4B0B-0F84-4F36-A5BD-442FB1C3A183_zps9kvhhug9.jpg

 

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x274/slick-nick-autos/Thompson%20m1a1/E2635B91-E0A6-4533-BBAF-6597FA6A2FE3_zpsriv0kbkb.jpg

 

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x274/slick-nick-autos/Thompson%20m1a1/1D2C1965-BEAA-44F8-8E47-091E59ABCA6E_zpslevquhel.jpg

 

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x274/slick-nick-autos/Thompson%20m1a1/CA347363-03E6-4EB3-B6F0-4A61291331F0_zpsnthnjgdr.jpg

 

Bent cocking handle

 

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x274/slick-nick-autos/Thompson%20m1a1/BE6935E2-9A5D-4377-B20F-8479E267B517_zpsu4ht9grt.jpg

 

The deactivated bolt and firing pin

 

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x274/slick-nick-autos/Thompson%20m1a1/BE5D70E7-D101-493F-9C8E-2CC28DF5F14C_zpsk6n41qhp.jpg

 

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x274/slick-nick-autos/Thompson%20m1a1/D7C581D4-74EB-4C93-B94D-D25E58EE2BC6_zpsu7i1n5tl.jpg

[Nick-England]

The wood work is in bad shape and you can see where the old mountings were filled, is it possible to buy new ones?

 

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x274/slick-nick-autos/Thompson%20m1a1/FEC6960D-84CF-4BFB-BAFF-8BEDFB5F05B6_zpsdazhhj5v.jpg

 

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x274/slick-nick-autos/Thompson%20m1a1/1B4BFD8C-DD41-4C68-BA84-44FEB626B088_zpsw10n4g8v.jpg

 

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x274/slick-nick-autos/Thompson%20m1a1/EAA7AA59-E87C-436C-8956-4D3275F95607_zpsp8cegrab.jpg

 

Is this cut for the deac or how they are?

 

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x274/slick-nick-autos/Thompson%20m1a1/85234768-EF7A-44FF-A7A9-6AA7E6E11EF4_zpsetomgwnm.jpg

 

Some previous repair work

 

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x274/slick-nick-autos/Thompson%20m1a1/85234768-EF7A-44FF-A7A9-6AA7E6E11EF4_zpsetomgwnm.jpg

 

A crack in the metal

 

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x274/slick-nick-autos/Thompson%20m1a1/BC0D755A-5908-43A8-AFB6-0758F0427FFE_zpsnpsm0znh.jpg

 

This part looks as though it's been repaired very professionally, did Thompson have all ww2 issued guns brought back and repaired instead of scrapped?

 

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x274/slick-nick-autos/Thompson%20m1a1/16CB568B-71F4-4BCB-AB92-BB1BEF27B34F_zpshyo0ebxl.jpg

 

This pic shows the inside of the repaired piece, is the metal supposed to be as this as it is as the other side is thicker? There's a hole drilled into this part is that original? And the trigger mechanism looks broken yet still works? Are these parts available as I'm guessing it's not part of the deac being that it still cocks and fires

 

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x274/slick-nick-autos/Thompson%20m1a1/8AB28CD5-DADA-4790-B0AA-3B46407C4CD2_zpsccup1a23.jpg

 

Badly bent trigger guard, is this common of m1a1's that have seen action?

 

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x274/slick-nick-autos/Thompson%20m1a1/D4030764-C616-4CE0-8740-1D621B8F4FD5_zpswm5iw9ht.jpg

 

This looks to have been milled out?

 

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x274/slick-nick-autos/Thompson%20m1a1/44AAD8B7-198D-4CB1-A047-DE7921F794A6_zpsdcmealzn.jpg

 

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x274/slick-nick-autos/Thompson%20m1a1/3BC42218-0954-4CEC-90F7-7C74B34A88B0_zpsju0oq4q6.jpg

[Nick-England]

Any help appreciated, would like to get this back into good shape and restored so it can look good on the wall

 

Cheers Nick

[TD.]

Hi Nick from England,

Welcome to the Thompson forum - the best Thompson site on the Internet. We have quite a few members from the United Kingdom so you will be in good hands here.

 

It appears to me you have old-spec deac in that you can cock the bolt and pull the trigger. That said, whoever performed the deactivation wanted to make sure that your M1A1 could never be used for anything other than a wall display. Most of the receiver rails have been milled off the bottom of the receiver and the receiver nose split down the middle. I would guess the grip mount has been welded into the receiver nose along with the gutted barrel. It appears the trigger guard on the frame was bent from use (I like that) prior to the deactivation process. The rails of the frame have also been gutted along with the deactivation of the internal parts. Internal parts for the Thompson gun are not controlled in the USA and are widely available here. I am not sure about the wisdom of installing working parts in a deac. Perhaps others from Great Britain can chime in. My guess is that action would be unwise. The hole in the bottom of the frame must be part of the deac process as this is not found on a working gun.

 

All the nomenclature markings, the GEG (George E. Goll) and FJA (Frank J. Atwood) markings are what I would expect to see.

 

In a nutshell, you have a wall hanger. But it is something all of us on the Forum would be glad to own. The wood does not look bad. It appears someone has covered it with some type of gloss clear coat finish. If mine, I would want to strip the wood and refinish like it left the Savage factory in 1942/43. Strip the wood - VERY VERY LIGHT sanding only (if any) and refinish with linseed oil. I would not change the location of the stamped sling swivels. What you have is a typical WWII British modification; perfect for your location!

 

Again, welcome to the Board. I am sure other members that have studied the M1 Thompson in more detail will chime in.

[Nick-England]

Cheers td I appreciate the info, it's been difficult for me to tell what's part of the deac and what was broken/possibly previously repaired before deactivation, I do like to see it in its state with things like the bent trigger guard as it shows the hard working life it's had but I also would like to see it looking like it did when it left the factory all them years ago, I'll give the wood a go with a light grit and finish it off as you've mentioned, but would also like to see it wearing some new wood too, I won't be chucking anything in the bin that's for sure, I found this restored Thompson on google and would love to see it looking in as good as condition as this

 

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x274/slick-nick-autos/Thompson%20m1a1/DF7767C0-EAEA-4E17-915A-B36E8897E009_zpsdomojapy.jpg

[TD.]

Nick,

I believe you can make your deac look as good as the one in the picture. I would suggest initially stripping the wood with some type of liquid finish remover and only using the "light grit" at the very end of the process prior to applying the new finish. If you search the Forum, others have commented on the re-finish process they use for wonderful results.

 

Let us know how it turns out.

[shadycon]

Nice to have you aboard. TD has given you some very good ideas. go for it.

[Nick-England]

Ok cheers mate I'll do plenty of research before I go ahead with restoring, I need to find out how the m1a1 metal work was finished off from factory and if it differs from other Tommy guns which I've heard it does due to the m1a1 being made in the cheapest possible way, so I can decide whether to go with a better off looking finish or original factory finish, so gonna have a good look around this forum today and see what I can find

[Gio]

Nick-England

 

Welcome to the board. I would recommend that you buy TD's book it will give you a lot of info on the Thompson's that went to England.

 

Good luck on this project.

 

Frank

[buzz]

The M1A1 wasn't made in the "cheapest possible way". The build quality was actually excellent, on par with other US arms like the Garand and M1 Carbine.

 

The original Colt Thompson was over-engineered and build like a fine sporting arm. Which made it so expensive that sales were poor.

 

Over the course of WWII the gun was simplified by removing the not-so-useful design features and the finish was reduced from a high polish blue to a matte black oxide.

 

An example of the over-engineering of the original gun is the Blish lock mechanism. It works OK but it's needlessly complicated, and was eliminated by adding a little weight to the bolt in the M1 model.

 

Another example would be the fins on the barrel, which were removed for the 1928A1 model.

 

 

Of course collectors like stuff to be fancy instead of practical. Nobody ever says, "I hate the shaker hood on my 1970 Plymouth Cuda, it's not practical."

 

 

In the USA, it seems to me that most M1 or M1A1 Thompsons you encounter were rebuilt by the US Army.

 

My understanding is that they would strip the guns down into piles of parts, gauge all the parts, and then reassemble the guns with a mixture of good used parts and brand new military surplus parts.

 

The result is that the guns appear and function almost like brand new.

 

Usually the guns were refinished in the process with a grey Parkerizing that tended to turn a little bit olive green in storage.

 

Usually the guns are marked with a rebuild stamp, the M1s I've seen so far were all marked with RIA, Rock Island Arsenal.

 

 

Your gun looks way more beat up than the typical US Thompson, it looks like a battlefield pickup.

 

I don't think I would refinish that gun, except remove the putty and varnish from the wood and refinish with a proper oil finish.

 

 

You came to the right place for advice, these guys know everything.

Edited April 12, 2016 by buzz

[Mk VII]

That's a distinctly severe DEWAT, with massive damage to the fire control components and the receiver rails. Surprised it still cocks and snaps OK, many don't very well. The process has destroyed the 6 o'clock letter under the chamber which identifies the manufacturer.

Commonwealth woodwork was often modified in this way, sell the wood if you want and buy standard stuff which can still be found brand new.

This gun sounds like a Beyond Economic Repair specimen which someone decided would have more retail value as a DEWAT (except as of April 6th all previously existing deactivation certificates are void when the arm changes hands).

[dalbert]

Nick-England,

 

Welcome to the board! As TD. mentioned, we have quite a few members from England who post here regularly. I second Gio's recommendation of Tom's book, "Great Britain - The Tommy Gun Story."

 

If this M1 were mine, I would refinish the stock as TD. describes, and leave the rest alone. This Thompson has some history, and all the parts you have now are likely original to that history. It is what it is.

 

Cheers!

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

[Nick-England]

Yup I'm gonna get td's book on order tonight, I've noticed most m1a1's that have been restored are parkerised but I don't really like the look of I'm honest, I would rather get new wood for it and just keep this wood put away somewhere, still not sure weather to restore the metal work in the shape it's in to show the hard life it's had or get it back in shape, I'm aware of the deac law now which is why I picked this up before it hit effect, there's big uproar about it on the deac page on fb and deacs in old spec are still being sold from what I've heard on there due to lupoles I'll get some closer pics of the wood work up later as I don't see much point in restoring it, it's quite battered and where they've filled the holes from the previous sling mounting points on the butt stock it's sunk

[Nick-England]

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x274/slick-nick-autos/Thompson%20m1a1/AD64E547-FC27-410C-AE4B-5BF4236BF0D6_zpsrfmjzt2i.jpg

 

Gave it a quick going over with some 800grit dry and then the same wet, it's come up a lot nicer but still not keen on this wood