schatzperson Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Hi everyone, I have been busy with preparing a database of the majority of the Russian LL TSMG's. Dalbert has kindly offered to host the list. I am not even half way thorough, but I have done all the 1928 A1's in this shipment; I hope to add about 1000 M1's and M1A1's later on. I am using excel and I have found it convenient to list and use the search function to find......wait for it.......consequtive numbers. I have done all I could to put away the majority of more collectible examples for my collection and for sale as live guns before they get dewatted. I have found some interesting ones like a retrostamped Navy address. This was sheer luck, because I was looking for Savage serial numbers lower than 75,000 and my heart sank when I saw that the lowest was 109,812. It was late at night, freezing in the warehouse, but I just had to see inside one box. The fisrt gun I picked up was Navy, serial S 302,861. A retrostamp of course, but I put it away in my lot; I will be able to examine it close in a few weeks time when the shipment arives. I was able to save two pairs of consequitve: AO 49, 586 /7 and M1A1 393,940/1. http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv317/s...erson/plane.jpg http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv317/s...Sophieagain.jpg http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv317/s...efortheroad.jpg http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv317/s...phiesChoice.jpg http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv317/s...phiesChoice.jpg http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv317/s...ehouseblues.jpg http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv317/s...ehouseblues.jpg I have recieved a number of requests for information and general information questions about these shipments; I have honestly tried to answer everybody to the best I could, but just in case I missed somebody....do go ahead and ask again.... Between sorting out import/export hassle etc, its getting very busy. I hope my tires with photobucket work out ! Regards all, Vincent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyfivecal Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Vincent- thanks for sharing! thats amazing to see crates full of thompsons'. glad to hear you had a safe and purposeful trip. your efforts, to list serial numbers are appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilOhio Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Has anybody here yet realized that what appear to be those original shipping cases are most likely importable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billie32 Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 i have, that's why i've got a couple of em sitting in the corner... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schatzperson Posted March 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Actually I thought of getting a pair also. It would cost a fortune to ship them from Europe to the US. I wonder if they could perhaps be filled with accessories: Belts, 5 cell mag puches, oilers, cleaning rods and takledown tool. Seriously, I can probably fill a case with the stuff, most canvas marked '42 I believe. Vincent Has anybody here yet realized that what appear to be those original shipping cases are most likely importable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billie32 Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 it is indeed, that's how i got mine in, stuffed full of pouches, oilers, cleaning rods, and takedown tools....although i traded a whole bunch (literally piles) of standard post WWII uniforms for them, so it didn't really matter what it cost, i won no matter how you look at it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Vincent, Thanks for sending the data from your trip. I'll get the results posted as soon as possible for everyone to see...I'm just very pressed for time at the moment. David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMGguy Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Just adding my big "Thanks!" for posting the pics. Wish I had not drooled on my keyboard, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbore Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 (edited) Thanks, for the pics and info. Now to show my ignorance and curiosity - - who and where you and why/how/to what extent do you have access to these Gems? Edited March 4, 2009 by bigbore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schatzperson Posted March 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Hi bigbore nice to meet you, I live in Malta Europe, I am a collector with an interest in TSMG's; I am vice president of our local gun association and also have a number of established contacts with fireams dealers across Europe. I have been following the Russian TSMG saga the last few years now, and obsessed with the idea of getting to find out as much as I can about the whole thing , buying some for myself and saving as many as I can for private collectors or Museums before they are torched, deactivated, or converted to semi auto. The end result of my quest is 13 guns in my collection ( will increase I hope) and several dozen more sold off to collectors in Europe. I am close enough to the "motherlode", that I can call the owner and I can be in this warehouse in 3 or 4 hours to pick whatever I need- Might sound nice but I do not have unlimited funds! Furthermore, I also feel compelled to get as much information as I can and make it available to the community at large. I am compiling a list of serials ( about 1600) in excel format and TD has been kind enough to offer to host it on this board. Serials can be a good source of tracing movments etc. The list has also made it possible to actually un-earth a few pairs of consequtive numbered TSMG's from the pile of crates. It was a bugger trying to shift those crates around! Does anybody know if consequtive TSMG's are found elsewhere in collections? I would also be happy to recieve any information that would guide me to me to the more collectable features when looking at the serial list . So far I have put aside the consequtives, a New york 1928A1, a few flat ejectors / knurled actuators and low numbers. I put aside a fouple of bright bolt M1's and 2 x "TOMMY GUN" stamped examples. Any indication of what might make a more collectable TSMG and help me pick out of the list or crates, are welcome. Thanks, for the pics and info. Now to show my ignorance and curiosity - - who and where you and why/how/to what extent do you have access to these Gems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schatzperson Posted March 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Hey billie! I understand exactly how you feel- No matter the time and money I spent, I still feel I made the right choises. it is indeed, that's how i got mine in, stuffed full of pouches, oilers, cleaning rods, and takedown tools....although i traded a whole bunch (literally piles) of standard post WWII uniforms for them, so it didn't really matter what it cost, i won no matter how you look at it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Sorry it took me a few days to get this posted...extremely busy at the moment... Here is a picture of the file containing the Bridgeport and Savage 1928 serial numbers on Thompsons observed in the Russian crates. You may have to click on the image to make it readable in full size. Bridgeport and Savage Thompson serial Numbers in Russian Crates David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schatzperson Posted March 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Hey, David, thats great! Is it possible to put them in the Pinned section? Its easier to use them for everybodies reference there. Thanks Vincent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Hey, David, thats great! Is it possible to put them in the Pinned section? Its easier to use them for everybodies reference there. Thanks Vincent Vincent, I'll add a link to the file in the pinned FAQ post as soon as I can. David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zamajoe Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 I brought S-326521 out of Kiev, do you know where these were stored. There are still some in a Bulgarian depot also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schatzperson Posted March 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 I brought S-326521 out of Kiev, do you know where these were stored. There are still some in a Bulgarian depot also. S 326521 falls within the serial range of the Savage guns I have seen, S 109812 and S 536447. I viewed them when they were unloaded out of Russia, probably Ukriane. There are even some numbers close to yours, 325948 and 326009 and 325895. This would indicate that yours came from the same original depot; Finding a small number of consqutive numbers and sometimes whole blocks just 10's or hundred's away from each other, in the same shipment, is a sign that probably the guns did not move around much during the last 70 years. Evidence of recent cleaning off cosmoline since the early 2000 ( documented packing lists) lends weight to this theory. Re. the Bulgarian depot: I only picked up some rumours about this. I have not given it much thought because talk about such finds in the former east block is plentyfull. I would be very interested to find out just what depot you are referring to, because I might be able to have the information checked out for veracity. Regards Vincent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 I decided to add this thread to the Machinegunboards.com TSMG Reference Thread Index, and I also added the link to the serial number list. You can find it in the pinned section at the top of the board, and the topic is listed in the "Collector Interest" section. David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schatzperson Posted March 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Thats great david, thanks ! I will be sending you updates of some M1's and lots of M1A1's that were in the same shipment. I decided to add this thread to the Machinegunboards.com TSMG Reference Thread Index, and I also added the link to the serial number list. You can find it in the pinned section at the top of the board, and the topic is listed in the "Collector Interest" section. David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zamajoe Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 Vincent, My name is Bill. I have been following these rumors since I lived in Heidelberg, Germany in the early and mid 1990s. Three years ago I spoke with an American Ordnance Colonel who while verifying the destruction of small Army on behalf of a treaty verification visit, asked about WWII weapons. He was taken across the depot to a building containing mostly captured German WWII small arms. Evidently the German prisoners worked there re-working the weapons until the early 1950s when the work ceased. This cache of weapons was intended for issue, as a last resort, in the event of another war. There he saw Thompson in the cases you show in your photos. Each case containing 5-cell magazine pouches, belts and magazines as I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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