Newbie With Thompson!

[Stogie]

I have recently purchased a Model 1928 AC, all matching, AO152xxx serial number range (matching upper and lower). This is my first Thompson so I need a little info. Did ALL of the Naval Thompsons have the US Navy overstamp? On the grip and stock of the one I purchased, deeply stamped, is SS220 (USS Barb?), with the stock boasting a 53 (rack number?) above the SS220. The stock also has the anchor stamping as well. The US has been ground, which I was told was done when they were sent back to the arsenal? Barrell is proofed with the Cutts compensator with correct stampings on it. Just trying to get a feel for how these weapons were placed in and out of service. Thanks for all of your help!!

 

Stogie

[Lancer]

Stogie

 

Welcome to the board.

Most if not all of the AO Model 1928ac's with the U.S. ground off were law enforcement guns and many are in the serial # range your's is including mine which is # 150969. Unless your gun has military acceptance stamps, it is most likely a former LE gun as well. There are a fair amount of postings here on this variation that you can easily find with a search. Frank's book, AT II is a must have if you want learn about Thompsons but info on is sparse on this particular variation, as I recall, less than 1 page.

[Lancer]

After reading your post again, I should mention that all Navy models are Colts so your gun can not be an US Navy model but since your stock has a the anchor stamp, it may be an original Colt stock that may have been swapped at some point in time before it left PD service. You should post pics for the experts here to tell you more.

[Stogie]

After reading your post again, I should mention that all Navy models are Colts so your gun can not be an US Navy model but since your stock has a the anchor stamp, it may be an original Colt stock that may have been swapped at some point in time before it left PD service. You should post pics for the experts here to tell you more.

 

Thanks Lancer! I will try and post pics soon. Great site. Looking forward to some useful information!!!

[Stogie]

After reading your post again, I should mention that all Navy models are Colts so your gun can not be an US Navy model but since your stock has a the anchor stamp, it may be an original Colt stock that may have been swapped at some point in time before it left PD service. You should post pics for the experts here to tell you more.

 

Thanks Lancer! I will try and post pics soon. Great site. Looking forward to some useful information!!!

[Stogie]

After reading your post again, I should mention that all Navy models are Colts so your gun can not be an US Navy model but since your stock has a the anchor stamp, it may be an original Colt stock that may have been swapped at some point in time before it left PD service. You should post pics for the experts here to tell you more.

 

Thanks Lancer! I will try and post pics soon. Great site. Looking forward to some useful information!!!

[Lancer]

Stogie

The smooth barel, Lyman L sight, front pistol grip and paddle selector switches are all very common on this Thompson variation. Mine has the exact same configuation. Do you have pics of the anchor stamp on the stock?

[Stogie]

Stogie

The smooth barel, Lyman L sight, front pistol grip and paddle selector switches are all very common on this Thompson variation. Mine has the exact same configuation. Do you have pics of the anchor stamp on the stock?

 

I don't, but its the real small anchor stamped on the front nose of the stock.

[Lancer]

Stogie

The smooth barel, Lyman L sight, front pistol grip and paddle selector switches are all very common on this Thompson variation. Mine has the exact same configuation. Do you have pics of the anchor stamp on the stock?

 

I don't, but its the real small anchor stamped on the front nose of the stock.

 

 

Sounds like this could be an original Colt butt stock. If it is........it is not correct on this gun BUT would be very valuable if indeed is original Colt.

[darrylta]

Stogie, You lucked out on the butt stock, it's a Colt. It started life as a 1928 A1, it has all the less costly parts that were used on latter 28's as in the smooth barrel and L sight. The overstamp C denotes it was sold as a commercial gun, most likely a PD gun. Looks very nice, the only thing I would do to it would be to remove the M1 paint.

My .02

-Darryl

[Lancer]

Stogie, You lucked out on the butt stock, it's a Colt. It started life as a 1928 A1, it has all the less costly parts that were used on latter 28's as in the smooth barrel and L sight. The overstamp C denotes it was sold as a commercial gun, most likely a PD gun. Looks very nice, the only thing I would do to it would be to remove the M1 paint.

My .02

-Darryl

 

Darryl

I have always been under the impression that the "c" stood for compensated, are you sure it stands for commercial?

[darrylta]

Lancer, I think the 28 has always had a comp on it. I'm pretty sure the C is commercial. I could have it confused with my circa 1921 "C" 1911. I'm sure an expert will chime in any time now.

-Darryl

[Lancer]

Now I'm wondering, if the butt stock is Colt, is there any chance that the rest of the wood is Colt too. Can any of you experts tell from the pics?

[darrylta]

Lancer, I think the 28 has always had a comp on it. I'm pretty sure the C is commercial. I could have it confused with my circa 1921 "C" 1911. I'm sure an expert will chime in any time now.

-Darryl

 

Lancer, Attached are photo's of a 1928ac Savage I looked at awhile back. It had all Colt like levers, ejector, mag catch etc.

-Darryl

 

[darrylta]

Lancer, I looked at that to, the pistol grip is GI. The front grip is very Colt like?

I wonder if Stogie would consider an exchange, I've got some original Savage wood I'd

trade plus a little cash. My 21ac has a slight crack in the stock.

 

-Darryl

Edited March 9, 2010 by darrylta

[Robert Henley]

Stogie, You lucked out on the butt stock, it's a Colt. It started life as a 1928 A1, it has all the less costly parts that were used on latter 28's as in the smooth barrel and L sight. The overstamp C denotes it was sold as a commercial gun, most likely a PD gun. Looks very nice, the only thing I would do to it would be to remove the M1 paint.

My .02

-Darryl

 

Darryl, I was wondering about the "C" overstamp of the "1," i.e., the "AC" versus "A1" designation. From the posts, you believe that to mean it was diverted from a military production gun to a commercial gun? Thanks, Robert

[darrylta]

Stogie, You lucked out on the butt stock, it's a Colt. It started life as a 1928 A1, it has all the less costly parts that were used on latter 28's as in the smooth barrel and L sight. The overstamp C denotes it was sold as a commercial gun, most likely a PD gun. Looks very nice, the only thing I would do to it would be to remove the M1 paint.

My .02

-Darryl

 

Darryl, I was wondering about the "C" overstamp of the "1," i.e., the "AC" versus "A1" designation. From the posts, you believe that to mean it was diverted from a military production gun to a commercial gun? Thanks, Robert

 

Yes, it was probably bought straight from the Auto Ord. sales dept., pulled from a batch that was war bound, stamped and delivered to a PD.

-Darryl

Edited March 8, 2010 by darrylta

[Stogie]

Stogie, You lucked out on the butt stock, it's a Colt. It started life as a 1928 A1, it has all the less costly parts that were used on latter 28's as in the smooth barrel and L sight. The overstamp C denotes it was sold as a commercial gun, most likely a PD gun. Looks very nice, the only thing I would do to it would be to remove the M1 paint.

My .02

-Darryl

 

Darryl, I was wondering about the "C" overstamp of the "1," i.e., the "AC" versus "A1" designation. From the posts, you believe that to mean it was diverted from a military production gun to a commercial gun? Thanks, Robert

 

Yes, it was probably bought straight from the Auto Ord. sales dept., pulled from a batch that was war bound, stamped and delivered to a PD.

-Darryl

 

Keep it coming guys!! Any info is good info!!!

[gijive]

Stogie,

 

Your gun probably came from a law enforcement agency that had more than one gun. It was quite common for detachable wood stocks to get put on different guns over the years. The rear stock on your gun is more than likely a Colt stock, if it has the Remington anchor logo. Does the attachment slide have a nickel colored latch? A close up of this part would allow us to determibe if the slide is original Colt/Remington. Also take a close up of the butt plate, to determine originality. The front grip on your gun appears to be a Colt grip. It was not uncommon for the post-war sales of these guns to law enforcement to have a Colt front grip that was leftover from the Colt production. The rear grip is a WWII variety surplus grip. Virtually all of these late/post-war law enforcement sales were guns that were sold by Maguire Industries after they reorganized and they are mostly Auto-Ordnance made guns. They were sold to law enforcement and Federal agencies well into the early 1950's.

 

Many year ago in Thompsonland, before the Internet, dealers such as Roger Cox and others sold these guns from law enforcement agencies in the belief that the stamped over "C" stood for a commercial gun, originally made for the military, but sold in the commercial law enforcement market, hence, the ground off U.S. Today many collectors believe the "C" stands for Compensator, as in the 1936 catalogue listing of guns as 1921AC, 1928AC, etc. Auto-Ordnance wasn't using those designations during production of the 1928A1 for military procurement, because the 1928A1 model was "standard" with the compensator. It is very likely that Maguire Industries did in fact market these guns to law enforcement using the stamped over "C" to designate commercial sales, who knows. It is one of the mysteries of the Thompson history.

 

There are many of these style law enforcement guns in the possession of collectors. Get an FOIA request and you may be able to determine when the gun was first registered. My guess is it was not during WWII, but sometime later when sold to a dealer by a police agency. Good luck with your purchase, enjoy owning it.

Edited March 9, 2010 by gijive

[dalbert]

Lancer, I think the 28 has always had a comp on it. I'm pretty sure the C is commercial. I could have it confused with my circa 1921 "C" 1911. I'm sure an expert will chime in any time now.

-Darryl

 

Darryl,

 

Some 1928's did not have compensators on them. Remember that the 1921A was the base Colt Thompson model, so a comp had to be added to turn it into an AC. Some were sold without the comp, but converted to 28 internals. (1928A) The Swedish Colts were sold in this configuration, and the 1928A model was also featured in the 1936 and 1940 Auto-Ordnance Catalogs.

 

I don't know if there is any official documentation regarding the "C" overstamp on the "1" on the WWII production TSMG's diverted to PD's referring to "Commercial," or if it simply hearkens back to the "AC" model designation with the compensator. Interesting question.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

[Robert Henley]

I don't know if there is any official documentation regarding the "C" overstamp on the "1" on the WWII production TSMG's diverted to PD's referring to "Commercial," or if it simply hearkens back to the "AC" model designation with the compensator. Interesting question.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

 

I've seen the "C" overstamp fairly frequently. For example, here's a gun where it looks like the "1" was ground off like the "US" and the "C" stamped over where the "1" was:

 

http://www.dndguns.com/thompson_1928ac_ao151772x.htm

 

In this example, you also see the "X" added to the end of the SN.

 

I've been wondering about the "C" overstamp and what it means.

 

Robert

 

 

 

[Stogie]

gijive,

 

I will get some pics of the butt plate and dovetail slide. I will say that the butt plate has the provision to insert an oiler in the stock, which is there, by the way. When you say "nice colored" do you mean case hardened? Where do I begin to get an FOIA request?

 

 

 

Thanks for all of the information from everyone. I have collected weapons with my father for 35 years and this if the first Thompson we have ever owned or looked at owning. We purchased it and many other weapons from a friend of the family that passed last year (he had owned the weapon since '82). I don't intend on ever selling the weapon and will most likely leave it all together as you see it, so provenance is important.

 

My big task now is to determine what the grip and butt stock stamping(s) are and their relation to the history of the gun. When they were added and what their designations mean. Thats part of the fun of actually owning the weapon (that and it makes for good decoration in the gun room! ). Did I buy it thinking it has some historical significance, no, but the history of the gun is important to its existence now.

 

Stogie

Edited March 9, 2010 by Stogie

[gijive]

Lancer, I think the 28 has always had a comp on it. I'm pretty sure the C is commercial. I could have it confused with my circa 1921 "C" 1911. I'm sure an expert will chime in any time now.

-Darryl

 

Darryl,

 

Some 1928's did not have compensators on them. Remember that the 1921A was the base Colt Thompson model, so a comp had to be added to turn it into an AC. Some were sold without the comp, but converted to 28 internals. (1928A) The Swedish Colts were sold in this configuration, and the 1928A model was also featured in the 1936 and 1940 Auto-Ordnance Catalogs.

 

I don't know if there is any official documentation regarding the "C" overstamp on the "1" on the WWII production TSMG's diverted to PD's referring to "Commercial," or if it simply hearkens back to the "AC" model designation with the compensator. Interesting question.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

 

Good point, Dave. The Swedish guns, to be clear, were the last remaining stocks of the Colt guns sold as "A" models based on customer preference, correct? When the military designated the 1928 Model standard as the 1928A1, it was with compensator, horizontal fore grip and sling swivels. All 1928A1 Models had these features unless they were depot/repair level modifications and put back in service with an "A" configuration barrel. This obviously occurred during the war and horizontal foregrips were probably changed out also. The basic A1 model though, was standard with Cutts compensator.

[Stogie]

Thanks for all of the info from everyone!!! And a special THANK YOU to those that offered individual guidance and education on my Thompson. Right now, it looks as if my Thompson was utilized by the Montgomery, AL Police Department and the grip and stock numbers are in reference to their internal arsenal identification (found a little tidbit of information stashed under the buttplate!!! ). Furthermore, the front vertical grip and stock, the oiler and several internal parts are Colt. You guys have been very knowledgable and I really appreciate all of the help!!!

 

Stogie

Edited March 12, 2010 by Stogie

[gijive]

gijive,

 

I will get some pics of the butt plate and dovetail slide. I will say that the butt plate has the provision to insert an oiler in the stock, which is there, by the way. When you say "nice colored" do you mean case hardened? Where do I begin to get an FOIA request?

 

Stogie,

 

My apologies for the poor spelling in my first post about your gun. I was typing the reply at work and was in a hurry. I obviously didn't spell check the document. That should have been "nickel colored" latch. On the Colt guns the slide attachment was blued but the latch was left in the white or nickel colored. I have since edited my post and hopefully the spelling is now correct.

 

Since I responded to your post it sounds like you have discovered the origin of your gun. Obviously the Memphis PD also owned one or more Colt guns at some point in order for the parts to have been mixed up. I'm sure your butt stock is all legitimate.

 

Glad you were able to get some information on your gun and also that the members of this board were able to provide some help. Good luck, feel free to ask other questions when you have them.